Sony patents Wii-like pointer tech (20 months ago)
by Kyle Orland 
{ Dec 6th 2006 at 5:25PM }
God bless the U.S. Patent and Trademark office. While the archaic system of idea protection might indeed stifle creativity and lead to what some call "legalized extortion," its publicly accessible patent filings give us some of the best early glimpses into the internal plans of some highly secretive companies.The latest bit of insider information comes from a Sony patent filed for "an input device providing users with a pointing capability [which] includes a sender portion and a receiver portion." According to the patent, filed way back in May 2005, a user-operated unit sends a beam of light to one or more receiver units, which interpret the input as a "target point" on the screen.
You'd be forgiven for thinking this sounds a lot like the remote and sensor bar combo used in a competing video game system, but there's nothing in the patent limiting the device to just the PS3. In fact, the patent explicitly states the pointer should be easily integrated with "televisions, DVD players and recorders, digital or personal video recorders, cable and satellite set-top boxes, and video game consoles." A universal remote/pointer? An intriguing idea, but one that sounds hard to implement.
Which isn't to say Sony is necessarily planning on implementing it at all. Just because a patent has been filed doesn't mean a product is pending -- indeed, there hasn't been a public peep on the subject from Sony since the patent was filed months ago. Still, don't be surprised if and when you hear about Sony's revolutionary new control device.
Previously: WIPO patent on similar Sony tech.
[Via Digg, MaxConsole]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Brian @ Dec 6th 2006 5:34PM
Oh yeah and just like Al Gore invented the internet. All Sony is good for is copying other peoples ideas.
X @ Dec 7th 2006 10:23AM
Pull my finger!
B_Glass @ Dec 6th 2006 5:46PM
The patent was filed before Nintendo announce the wiimote, dipshit.
kodec @ Dec 6th 2006 5:47PM
Correction: all Sony is good for is copying other ideas and then making electronics that catch fire.
magus-21 @ Dec 6th 2006 8:04PM
B_Glass:
Gyration's had their floating mouse pointers out on the market for over four years now, and Nintendo bought a large portion of Gyration back in 2001 specifically for developing the Wiimote.
Eric Baker @ Dec 6th 2006 6:39PM
@ #2
And what makes you think Nintendo didn't patent the Wii's technology years before that? Companies are constantly patenting things. Most of them are never released or even announced, the patents are just secured as a precaution.
My guess for the whole PS3 ripping off the Wii debacle is that Sony had some ideas floating around about motion sensing and when Nintendo put theirs at the forefront, decided to rush one of those ideas into a product. Neither company really had the idea "first" (which wouldn't make a difference anyway) but I think it's undeniable Sony's decision to include it in the Sixaxis was largely influenced by the Wii.
-Moses
Aran @ Dec 8th 2006 11:19AM
B_Glass, so you are saying Nintendo actually copies Sony, like always? :lol:
I liked Sony very much earlier (I own both PS1 and PS2) but nowadays Sony is the cancer of game industry. When someone comes up with a new idea you can be sure Sony is copying it to their console. Or how about rumbling controllers, analog stick, motion-sensing controllers, handheld + home console connectivity, Xbox Liveish online system etc etc. I tried to overcome all of those things but their arrogance just sickens me.
Is it so damn hard to come up with a new idea instead of copying everything from others? You had to even copy the damn Spider-man FONT for PS3 FFS! Just die Sony, just die.
microdot @ Dec 6th 2006 6:03PM
yes... long before the wii-mote. which raises a question.... law suit anyone?
J @ Dec 6th 2006 6:01PM
The Wii remote is different being that the remote acts like a camera and sees the IR sensors on the sensor bar that tell it where it is relative to the bar.
If I'm understanding this correctly, this device sends a beam from the pointer to the sensor bar. This wont be near as accurate due to the smaller area of coverage by the pointer. The Wii remote has a huge area of view.
#2: You're a dipshit. ;P
lwelyk @ Dec 6th 2006 9:39PM
The wiimote was in development before this.
vidGuy @ Dec 6th 2006 7:40PM
Well I suppose Sony (or Nintendo) has a defense - that's not how the Wii works. After all, the remote is a receiver, not a user-operated sender.
"A universal remote/pointer? An intriguing idea, but one that sounds hard to implement."
I'm sure. If the Wii remote is having problems with IR interference from incadescent Christmas lights, I wonder how all your stereo and video equipment is going to handle random IR flying all over the house when you're playing some PS3 games.
Jeff @ Dec 6th 2006 10:17PM
wtf does that patent have to do with green lasers?
Miz @ Dec 6th 2006 7:56PM
"5. yes... long before the wii-mote. which raises a question.... law suit anyone?"
This patent describes a pointing-device which SENDS OUT a signal so that the system may determine where it is pointing. The Wiimote doesn't work like that.
Majortom @ Dec 6th 2006 6:26PM
wasnt the wiiremote announced only a couple of months later?
The wii remote was patented way before this was.
DISPELL RUMOURS @ Dec 6th 2006 6:21PM
if you look back you will find that sony has some of the best engineers on the planet, not nintendo fellas...
playclever @ Dec 6th 2006 6:22PM
"sounds a lot like" != "like".
If either Sony or Nintendo were unaware of this patent I'd be flabberghasted.
WamBam @ Dec 6th 2006 6:23PM
I doubt you'll find that many inventions or ideas in modern society that don't, in some way, owe debt to something else that came before it. I don't think Joystiq is suggesting that Sony "invented" the idea for some sort of motion sensing device any more then Nintendo's Wii-mote is an original concept.
Sure, figuring out who came up with what first is important, perhaps, in some respects and has to be decided in patent courts. But it's the successful implementation of an idea that's truly important and sets people apart. How many successful devices exist that weren't the first of their kind? Apple didn't invent the portable digital music player but what they did come up with was/is great and they enjoy a sizeable market share because of the vision and effort they put into the thing. Yet I hardly ever hear people accusing Apple of ripping off of other companies in the same way that fanboys have suddenly decided to deride Sony for patenting something years ago.
Rob Stevens @ Dec 6th 2006 6:27PM
This won't apply to Nintendo, who's method is the inverse of Sony's. Since you can only patent a METHOD, not an IDEA, Sony would lose, since Nintendo's method doesn't infringe.
Morder @ Dec 6th 2006 6:37PM
sounds to me like what the original Powerglove made by mattel did
Jarrett @ Dec 6th 2006 8:02PM
The pointer on the Wii controller is not fundamentally different from the original Lightgun--the pointer is the sensor.
This Sony patent describes a device that works the opposite way. The pointer emits a beam, and the sensors are in the "target". This technology could potentially provide an extremely accurate pointing system, but it would need some pretty sophisticated sensors to bi-angulate (is that a word?) the position of the pointer.
ninja @ Dec 12th 2006 7:47PM
Brian wrote: "1. Oh yeah and just like Al Gore invented the internet. All Sony is good for is copying other peoples ideas."
******************************************************
Who did Sony copy these ideas from?
- PSone rendering 3D graphics (computers?)
- PSone CD Playback (Sega CD?)
- PS2 HDD add-on (though hardware took forever, idea of console having a HDD was out before MS ever released the Xbox). (computers again?)
- PS2 DVD playback (3DO?)
- Backwards compatibility (lol whatever)
- Eye Toy (motion activated gaming) (lol again)
- PS3 to PSP remote play feature (PDAs using Terminal Services to use 'remote play/connection' for 3rd party applications?)
- Free online gaming... not from Microsoft, that's for sure.
Maybe you should take "Introduction to Business" as your next elective. Competition has always been good for the consumer. Without it, products and services never improve.
How about making valid points next time, rather than solely fan-boy or hater comments and maybe you can actually reach someone with your opinions.
AssemblyLineHuman @ Dec 6th 2006 7:24PM
microdot: No. No lawsuit. First, it's highly unlikely that they're using the same technology. As far as I know, two things can have the same function, but as long as they do not use the same technology, everybody's okay. That's why Nintendo wasn't sued by Immersion and Sony and Microsoft were. Also, 20 months ago would be February of last year. The Wii remote was revealed in September of last year. Do you really think Nintendo or whatever company is selling them the technology filed their patents less than 10 months before Nintendo revealed it?
serb @ Dec 6th 2006 7:32PM
wow #1, im sorry but ur to stupid to be using the internet
Rancid Milk @ Dec 6th 2006 11:07PM
Didn't Nintendo have a similar technology known as the "zapper gun" or the "nintendo mouse" or other items like that? What about the projection screens that they use in college with the mouse remote? I think that Sony will end up loosing this patent, when it is realized that the technology has been out for more than 5 years.
joshness @ Dec 6th 2006 7:55PM
For argument's sake, let's say that the wiimote is exactly what Sony had in mind. Sony would have no chance if this came up in a court case. Just because you have been granted a patent to something doesn't mean that someone can challenge the patent. There is a little something in Copyright Law called Prior Art.
35 U.S.C. 102 (a) specifically states, " A person shall be entitled to a patent unless (a) the invention was known or used by others in this country, or patented or described in a printed publication in this or a foreign country, before the invention thereof by the applicant for patent . . . "
Let's just assume that both companies were working on the same thing at around the same time; it would come down to who had the project going first. Even so, other pointer devices have been in use for awhile now. Anyone remember the Gyration mouse? The mouse that you hold in the air and use as a pointing device. Sounds very similar to what Sony is claiming. Guess what? Nintendo purchased Gyration Inc. stock in 2001.
JustinL @ Dec 6th 2006 10:15PM
A) The Wiimote being in development before this doesn't matter - it's the first to invent and reduce the invention to practice.
B) "an input device providing users with a pointing capability [which] includes a sender portion and a receiver portion" is a remote control. This is a patent application. Patent applications are usually incredibly broad, and then inventors argue for years with the PTO until they agree upon something that hasn't already been invented. Sony isn't going to get a patent for a remote control, that's just what they wish they could patent.
C) As has been pointed out, Nintendo's wiimote functions entirely differently. It uses an infared beam to tell a remote where it is pointing. Not a 'receiver and sender' like a normal remote. New inventions need to entirely copy old ones to infringe, so no worries.
NoHitHair @ Dec 6th 2006 11:46PM
#6
Looking at Sony's history is rather sad, actually. Their name used to be associated with high prices and top quality in respect to anything electronic: televisions, stereos, etc.. However, I think it's rather obvious that Sony would rather let their infamous name lead inferior or ripped off technology than try to be the pioneers of engineering they once were. First their failed venture into Betamax (at least in the US) because of trying to demand what everyone can do with that medium (banning porn was very unwise) and now Blu-Ray. Whether or not Blu-Ray is technologically superior is not the issue - it's the fact that Sony refuses to ever even consider utilizing any other technologies. These days they attempt to spin their Bravia line as the "first television for men and women" - what the hell does that even mean? Sony demands unequivocally that we all follow their suit in every technological field they enter, even if they have absolutely nothing new to bring to the table. If everyone remembers correctly, Sony announced their Sixaxis "motion sensing" almost immediately after Nintendo's unveiled its Wiimote. Sony will always try to relive their glory days when their name wasn't equated with overpriced shit.
Irrespective of how many systems were sold nationwide, when I worked at EB, it was almost unheard of to field a defective Gamecube return. Used Playstations and new and used PS2s and Xboxes were extremely common, with our store seeing at least 2-3 defective PS2s per day. Just over a week ago, my idiot roommate's sweaty hands hurled a Wiimote into the ground, tossing the batteries and the back cover all over the room. We picked it up, put it back together and it worked like the day we bought it.
That would never happen with a Sony product.
Yesus @ Dec 7th 2006 9:30AM
>24
Sony sold 110 million ps2 units, nintendo sold 20 million gamecube units. If you sell less units there's bound to be less defective units.
Dumbass
warlock7 @ Dec 7th 2006 10:19AM
Okay, this has become silly. Nintendo got the technology for the Wiimote from the standalone Kenshin Dragon Quest game. The sword that came with the game used an IR transmitter on top of the TV to detect the swinging of the sword. Check it out over here: http://wii.ign.com/articles/709/709625p1.html
and here: http://www.siliconera.com/index.php/2006/06/06/what-dragon-quest-swords-might-be-like/
Nintendo didn't patent this technology because they purchased the rights from Enix.
Joe @ Dec 7th 2006 1:17PM
"The patent was filed before Nintendo announce the wiimote, dipsh*t."
It's called insiders at game companies smart guy. Sony obviously heard about Nintendo's new controller a few months beforehand, imagined a way it could be implemented (which was wrong) and tried to patent it. If Sony were so imaginative why didn't they release a controller based on this patent?
Extinction @ Dec 7th 2006 10:27PM
And ppl claim Sony made PS3s motion sensing in response to Wii. Nintendo made DS in response to the PSP, does that mean Nintendo copied?
Joe Johnson @ Jan 8th 2007 3:14PM
Bringing out new technology is worthless if nobody wants to play any of the games you have for the console.
Nintendo introduced a lot of things mentioned above (rumble, analog stick, etc...) and nobody cared. Sony takes what someone else did and applies it to games that people ACTUALLY WANT TO PLAY as opposed to Hop Hop Fairyland 12:Happy Dynamo Fun Fun (ie...Mario).
IMO, MS or Sony should just introduce a Wii-mote style controller of their own. Bye bye Nintendo. The Gamecube proved that Mario, Link, Samus, and their cute cuddly buddies cannot financially save a console platform. All the Wii has going for it is the controller and the price point. If MS or Sony pops up with one, then bye bye Wii....Inside another year or so, MS will drop the price of the 360. I was on the fence about the Wii, but after playing one (lag on the Wii-mote is borderline unacceptable) I'm off the fence. I don't see myself owning one.